00:01.46

Olivia Lara-Gresty

All right, everyone. Hello. And today I'm joined by Andrew Cohen, founder and CEO of Brainscape. Andrew and I met a while back at several different conferences. We're still figuring out which ones are, but a couple of different ones here in New York. And Andrew has, I mentioned, founded Brainscape, which is an adaptive learning platform that helps millions of learners study more efficiently, using cognitive science principles like confidence-based repetition and metacognition. Brainscape is being used by students, educators, and professionals around the world to master everything from languages to medical certifications. Andrew, thanks for joining us.

00:35.94

Andrew Cohen

Thank you, Olivia. 

00:37.56

Olivia Lara-Gresty

I wanted to just kind of like to ask people a little bit about their journey. And I noticed that your path from international economics to ed tech isn't exactly the most conventional. I was wondering if you could take us back to the moment where you were building a language learning tool in Excel, and kind of how that transition happened became Brainscape.

00:57.89

Andrew Cohen

It’s the traditional story of making a product you want for yourself. I was in a career in international development economics and had jobs that sent me to Mark Neek and then to Panama with the World Bank. 

And I was working on some controversial stuff that had me working with cabinet-level members about corruption that got me interviewed on Panamanian TV and radio, and the light stuck in my face. And I'm having to answer these controversial questions in Spanish. Which was not my first language. I studied abroad, I was using Rosetta Stone, and I was trying all the things that were hot at the time. This was a million years ago, kind of like all free iPhones. So I started writing all the words and phrases that I was having trouble with. Put a piece of paper in my pocket, I take them all and put them on an Excel spreadsheet, and I developed a system for how frequently you study those, and kind of cut and paste the ones that I was having trouble with into different tabs on the spreadsheet for how well I knew it, right? The hard ones I need to study frequently, the easy ones, maybe I'll review in a month. And I just started automating that system. And I ended up writing a macro in Visual Basic, so that's what I knew at the time, that was essentially just a digital flashcard. I don't think I was calling it that at the time, right? But it would give me an English thing and have me say it in Spanish, and then rate my confidence, how well I know it?

It turned out that this was on a scale of one to five; I had sort of discovered the Likert scale without really knowing it. If you have sort of a scale of one to a hundred, how well do you know it? It's just too much cognitive load. Am I 63 or an 88 or 85? It is sort of perfect. And my Spanish just got really good. And people were asking me, you know what my method was, to quickly get that conversation off.

People were asking me, you know, can they use this spreadsheet for their other subjects? I was part of the University of Panama. I was on the faculty doing speeches and stuff. And some of the grad students started using it for poli-sci and biology, and emailing it to each other.

So this program was going viral over email, but in Panama. So I knew that I was onto something and totally pivoted my career path. Ended up getting a master's in education technology at Columbia and made Brainscape the focus of my degree. So I started learning all the cognitive science around it. Understanding that for decades we've known that active recall, I think, metacognition, and space artificially were so effective, but there just wasn't a really good system that condensed it all together. So I did an experiment where a control group of grad students studied a topic with national birds using traditional flashcards and then asked them to use my prototype. Turned out that the prototype users performed more than twice as well on a post-test as those who used traditional flashcards in just 30 minutes. So I decided I'm going to go all in on this. Like, if this is effective, people want it, and so I started raising some friends and family money after grad school while I got a job doing some e-learning consulting on Wall Street, learning a little bit more about the business.

And I proceeded to make every mistake in the book. So for seven years, I mean, everything from the way I was fundraising, the was building teams, outsourcing way too much of the tech, a lot of kind of product mistakes, that seven years into it, after you know tons of seed extensions and not quite being ready for a Series A and barely making you know any revenue, ended up the whole thing collapsed. Just two of us were left in 2016, trying to sell the thing for pennies. Last time I was at the GSB conference, I was trying to get anybody to buy the code. I had like no engineers left, nobody wanted it. And the only way out was through. So we continued to just make a better and better product, sort of figured out SEO, figured out monetization. And you know it's been 8+ years since that near-death experience. And we've built a real business, turned it around the hard way. We've got over 30 people. And our mission is the same. You know, a lot of parts of the products have changed, but the mission is just to make the best adaptive flashcard platform on the planet with face repetition and cognitive science behind it, and helping people to make and find the best flashcards for any subject.

05:44.29

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing a little bit about the ups and downs that experience, because I think that for anyone out there that is either, you know, founding a company or just in any really point in their career where they're seeing some of those ups and downs, it's really helpful to just, you know, talk to someone who's navigated some of that. And I appreciate also you mentioned the only way out is through. Sometimes that is the position we find ourselves in, but it sounds like that ended up being a really fortuitous situation because it's a really cool app and just a program. And so I think that the other thing I wanted to mention is you were talking about becoming conversational in Spanish. And I'm starting to think about it when I try to learn Spanish myself, every time I travel abroad to a Spanish-speaking country, I've been turning my phone in Spanish to try to stay in the Spanish-speaking mode. And so I think my phone has been in Spanish since April of last year. And it's that I'm not learning anything. It's reminding me that I should go practice my Spanish, but I could probably use a more systematic approach. So I appreciate just the effort that you went through with that Excel spreadsheet and how that kind of really got you to Brainscape.

06:48.09

Andrew Cohen

Well, you know, Olivia, we actually just started a new promotion five minutes ago at Brainscape, where podcast hosts who interview me get three flashcards for life. So we'll get you taken care of.

06:59.94

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Perfect. Then I can be your test subject number 1000 when I figure out how much more Spanish I learned from this May to next May, as compared to April, April of last year, because it was not very many things.

Yeah, I guess, I mean, that might even roll into some of the questions I wanted to ask you about, because I think that that actually does kind of speak to one experience, which is that you know, as learners, we don't necessarily know that much about learning or about the processes that take place. And while we're all individuals, there are best practices out there that many of us benefit from. And so I'm curious, what do you think are some of the biggest misconceptions aroused knowledge-based learning and especially in kind of this era where we're glorifying skill acquisition?

07:47.12

Andrew Cohen

I think one of the big misconceptions is you know we don't need knowledge anymore. Right, you just ask ChatGPT. Why do you have to have any knowledge in your brain? They used to say that about Google when Google was first around, and even before that, when encyclopedias were really big decades ago. You know, anybody could just go to the library and look anything up. Why should students learn learn any knowledge? So it's a continuation of the same conversation. And at the end of the day, you know it's not about referencing dates and trivial information.

It's about having information in your brain so that you can make connections. Just because I can put anything into Google Translate doesn't mean that I don't want to be able to speak Spanish to be conversational with humans that have real human-to-human friendships and not have to constantly look at my phone or put on some glasses or have an earbud in that's doing 95% good job. I really want, you know, to internalize that. And it's the same in any career, right? In medicine, you know you don't want a doctor who's going to have to, you know, pause every single time you say something and quickly look something up. You want them to have an innate sense of what this might be, what I should test for. Sure, they can always go to the computer, they can look something up, but to make associations in your brain, knowledge is a critical piece. And so I think a lot of the backlash isn't so much about knowledge per se, but it's about what's chosen to be that knowledge. And what it is, in fact, you know memorizing every date in the French Revolution or every subspecies of mollusks when you're, you know, in eighth grade or something like that. Yeah, maybe that's not that important in terms of that knowledge to be memorized. But if you can kind of take that knowledge and figure out what the real learning aspects are that matter, maybe knowing the general order of history or the importance of certain events. You know why the French Revolution is important, or the execution of whoever during the French Revolution. And you know what it meant for inspiring the American Revolution across time, et cetera? Those are important things to know. So it's about how curriculum is developed, right? How mollusks evolved and and you know how that kind of led to the speciation that we have today, rather than what the scientific names are.

So thinking through curriculum, thinking through which knowledge should be prioritized, I think, is becoming more and more important when the individual facts and R&D are accessible to a lot of us.

10:36.43

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I think some of those facts are kind of the basis. It's that, once you have the shared knowledge or the shared language for whatever subject it is, that's when you can start having those deeper-level conversations.

You mentioned, doctors are kind of going on ChatGPT. I don't know if you are watching the show, The Pit, but it is about the emergency department. And I have to say, if I were in that emergency department and any doctor was grabbing their little computer to search something up, I don't think half those patients would be doing very well. So I just don't think it's a reality to have, you know, have some of that, that knowledge needs to be in place and to practice it.

11:14.82

Andrew Cohen

The future is for lots of people who can effectively wield the AI and know when to use it and how to supplement themselves, but not just saying that you don't need any knowledge or that AI is going to replace people, and on the other side of it.

11:30.26

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, and I wanted to bring this a little bit into just thinking about the study app Brainscape because, of course, there are a variety of applications that that end students are using for studying. And so in this study app market, how do you think about designing for a serious learner without resorting to maybe somewhat of the flashier or shallow features that might come up?

11:52.20

Andrew Cohen

We might have looked at our new tagline, right? Cross-crash for serious learners. That is the main way that we differentiate. I think a lot of people know Quizlet and Kahoot, and other kind more gamified ways of learning, perhaps Duolingo in the language market.

And I think they've done a really, really good job optimizing for fun, making it super kind of gamified, super engaging for people who are in K-12; they need a little bit more motivation to get their homework done or study for a 50 or 100-question quiz or exam. But when you have a ton to learn, when you have months and months of content for a big university exam, for a nursing or medical board, a bar exam, you're learning a foreign language, as as a very motivated autodidactic person, not sort of the casual duolingo game learner, but you're language geek. Or you need to take a professional certification in welding or a wine sommelier sort of case, whatever it is. You're serious, you're critical, you don't care as much about fun and engagement, you care about having the most effective platform that is going to help you improve your results, and do so with the least amount of net study time. So that's really what we focus on, that's what we've been increasingly kind of focusing our evolving brand on, is reaching that very serious learner. And doing so knowing that flashcards are not the only thing that you're gonna be using to learn, right? Some subject knowledge is 80% of what the battle is, some of it is 20%, and the rest is application. But in any case, you're using flashcards as a supplement to some other curriculum. So we work with great course providers. We work with you know other partners to kind of make the Brainscape study experience the linchpin of the knowledge part so that they can focus on what they're best at, which is the skills. And I think one of the ways that we make the platform better for serious learners is, number one, we have a much kind of more granular way of organizing content. So it's not just sort of lots of different individual you know loose decks of content that you might find on some of those other platforms I mentioned, but you know entire curriculum, right it's for the MTAT, it's for the bargaining, it's broken down by biology and chemistry, and then each one of those is is broken down by the individual deck and subject. So you can see where your weaknesses are and dive in either manually or have the system programatically, algorithmically feed you up the concept that you're rating yourself the the lowest confidence on, and repeat them in exactly the interval of time that you need to see it again to maximize the improvement of that memory trace. So it turns out that that is actually the most important factor in how well you're going to remember something. It's not like, “Did I wrap the information in a cool mnemonic or a story or emotions, or all these different things that people do as sort of tricks and gimmicks? Maybe you've got some humor involved in it. All those things are nice, but nothing is more important than if I just taught you a new word, right? You just learn how to say meatball in Spanish, and it's agondiga.

And maybe you're like, oh, I didn't know that. That's a new hard word. I need to ask you again in like one minute or two minutes, how do you say meatball in Spanish? Because if I don't, you're probably going to forget it. If I ask you in 20 minutes, and it's already long forgotten, that's a waste, you're having to relearn it from scratch.

Whereas if I just told you 20 times in a row how to say beer and cerveza, you're like, I knew that. You don't have to waste my time. So getting that interval of time right between when you're going to be asked again and having that interval be as close as possible to just before you would have otherwise forgotten it is the secret to optimizing the learning process. And so we just want to create a system that makes it super, super easy for users to have access to all content broken into their atomic building blocks and accessible in that optimized study system.

And it just, at the end of the day, boils down to the user's rating of their topics, not how quickly they answer the question or all these things other people do, but trusting that serious learner to know, hey, I was a one out of five on this, or was a two out of five, and then using that to just have the system get smarter and smarter and smarter for the best people.

16:47.07

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, and it sounds like a safe space to fail in that sense, because no teacher's saying, oh, you're only at a one for how well you know this, but having that safe space. And I think, you know, a lot of the time that reflection piece is, you know, when I was teaching in school, just having students connect something to their own lives or whatever it is, having that reflective experience kind of makes that connection a little bit more personal. So it sounds like that might be a piece there that just would kind of engage a learner. And that kind of brings me to another question I wanted to ask. You mentioned sort of some of the flashier, maybe gamified experiences that students can have. But when you kind of when you think about the product decisions you're making with Brainscape, how are you making sure that serious learners are staying motivated, even when it's tough material, like for an MCAT or whatever it is? Where do you sort of see that product decision has been made?

17:38.76

Andrew Cohen

That's a really good question. We've had in the past several investors or other investors. Why don't you guys change, instead of flashcards, make it something like multiple choice, where the user can know, was I right or wrong? And where was I on the leaderboard? What did I score? And that way, you can have game mechanics. Look what they're doing on this platform. Look at what they're doing on QuizUp. Like, QuizUp was super viral all time in our best way. It should be more like QuizUp. And at so many you know junctures, we were tempted to do that, but we stayed to our guns and said, no, it's a flashcard. You have to think of the answer from scratch because active recall is so much more effective, right? Thinking of it from scratch. From a study standpoint, multiple choice might be good for assessment, you know, it's quick and easy, but for studying, you need to do active recall. And at the end of the day, active recall it's hard. It takes work, and it is more boring. So that question you ask is, sure, it's more effective, it's more boring. What do we do about it is something very top of the line. Because you know we're a business. We're not just optimizing the learning process. We also have to get engagement and retention and virality and all those things for growth mechanics, or we're not going to survive.

So what have we done? Well, number one, we realized that what makes a game fun isn't just that there are badges and coins and all kinds of more trivial things, but it's feedback in general. It's because you can see what level I am up to and how many points I have earned. And those things can be associated with anything, even if it's self-rated. And we also want to make sure that they have these milestones, these measurable milestones in both short-term, medium-term, and long-term progress measurements. So, in a video game, you're beating the bad guys, you know, right there in that level, you complete the level, so that's the short term, the medium term is completing the level. And then all the levels, all the progression is sort of like the long-term motivation to keep coming back every day or a week or a month until you do that. So, Brainscape, what does that look like? For the short term, we have a checkpoint every 10 cards. So whether you're doing a single deck or whether you're doing a mix of all your decks or all your subjects, every 10 cards, we're going to pop up a checkpoint telling you how much average confidence that you just gained during that round, how much time you spent, and what's your average improvement per unit of time so that you can see I've got 19 hours and 23 minutes left at this rate, if I keep progressing at this rate before I'm fully ready for MCAT or the bar exam. So you, as the learner, can effectively allocate your study time appropriately as we keep refining that information. So that's your short-term goal is the checkpoint.

On the dashboard screen, you're able to see for each depth how much you've progressed. If you're studying Spanish, you can know that I'm up to level two, which is essentially like year two of college Spanish, and I'm up to lesson 2.6.7, which is about this percentage with this you know type of topic area.

So that's sort of your medium term, like where am I in the progression of the classes? And then the long term, we have all kinds of metrics, and a cool metric, particularly in our mobile app, where you could be measuring how long of a streak you're on. I'm on a 167-day streak, studying a whole bunch of different stuff there. You can see a bar graph of average cards per day and how many cards I've studied today. So there's a constant sort of carrot in front of you, right? I want to improve my average over the long term by studying just a little bit more and improving myself. So, having you know lots of different ways to measure your progress, short, medium, and long term, are the things that you know we borrow from game mechanics to improve engagement without actually being a trivial game. I think we could strike that balance right.

22:05.84

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I love what you're mentioning about helping the student also see how much more time they're going to need to study. I think that the first thing you said when I, or the first thing that came to mind when you said that, was that fear of the unknown, that just like studying can be this big abyss if I don't know how long it's going to take me. And I think for anyone who might procrastinate out there, and I know I'm guilty of it as well, when you don't know what the task is going to be, it might be a little bit more daunting. So I think just helping students see have some visibility there sounds super unique and also super motivational when we're thinking about how to motivate without it being you know flashy game mechanics. And I wanted to just think a little bit about when you kind of see, how you're kind of tracking the behaviors that help you see how those students are progressing. I know you mentioned, as we said, just kind of having that layout of how much more study time they need, but how are you as a team measuring progress as opposed to just engagement on the platform?

23:04.76

Andrew Cohen

Right. I mean, because progress is self-reported, we're not actually assessing the learner. That's what they get done as they take their practice test with their prep course or the actual exam. So, how do we measure their progress if it's self-reported?

And I think the answer actually is kind of engagement and showing up because there is so much cognitive science research, both done by us and done by hundreds and hundreds of researchers around the world for decades, about the effectiveness of phased repetition, right retrieval practice, interleaving study, all the things that we're combining, we know that if the person is showing up, if they're coming back and ideally every day, and they're spreading out their study time over many sessions or days or weeks, rather than just cramming the night before, that's actually how we know that the system is working, because the methods are just so proven. Streaks, daily averages, and all the metrics I said before. And then just anecdotally, we know, looking at our reviews, right? You go on Trustpilot, you go on the Astro or Google Play, we're pretty consistent. 4.8, 4.9, the number of thousands of people giving five stars with a mention of how brands do change their life or they went from a D student to an A student or they had failed some professional certification three times finally passed for Brainscape or finally became fluent or conversational in language that none of those other kind of gamified apps weren't helping with for language learning. So there are the consistency metrics and then there's just the anecdotal qualitative data that constantly sees our reviews, giving us a smile on our face and convincing us that we're doing the right thing, and views as we advance the platform.

25:04.63

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, and I think what you're mentioning there is such a variety of topics that it sounds like learners are coming to the platform for. And so it's really interesting to just think about how if a student finds the app for one specific course or certification, how much more, I mean, you even mentioned that you are using it for a variety of subjects. So it does seem like it speaks to that, you know, that lifelong learner mentality and having a space to actually, or a tool to support that. And I guess I'm curious, you know, that makes me think about just how much there is to learn out there. And so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit, and you've kind of alluded to this a bit, but how study tools like Brainscape can ease the learning fatigue so that users can absorb those large large volumes of information, whether it's across subjects or, you know, one subject after another. How do we ease that learning fatigue?

25:56.90

Andrew Cohen

You double-clicked a minute ago on the time left being critical. I think part of the fatigue that we get from a lot of aspects of life is due to uncertainty. Not knowing what I should do, not knowing how much something is working, not knowing if the content is good, right? Can I trust it? Am I even just working on the right thing? So you're giving the user the time left, right? If you have this much time, then you could allocate it effectively over X number of days. Knowing that we've scaffolded the content, starting with the easiest content and getting progressively harder.

So we don't demoralize you right up front. We give you a sense of momentum that you're sort of building that stamina to be able to keep going and encourage you to take breaks. It depends card checkpoint and ends up being kind of the perfect length of time. It'll take you anywhere from like two minutes to eight minutes, you know, depending on the complexity of the flashcards and how much is on each, but that's short enough for you to be like, okay, one more round, just one more round. And you can keep saying one more round for as long as you can until you're totally fatigued, but it's bite-sized enough to you know give you multiple abilities to take breaks throughout the day. And that ends up not being just good for fatigue, but also being really good for memory retention, spreading out, and studying the best things.

27:41.55

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I'm already just thinking about, you know, you said two to eight minutes. That's about how long I wait on the subway platform for a train. So, just thinking about how it can be so bite-sized and then also, everything we've been talking about with how the motivation kicks in, the motivational pieces kick in, so this is one thing that I would like to become addicted to. I think it would help my studies there.

So, really cool. Just love to hear about, you know, how thoughtfully you've designed the app, and it sounds like you've listened and thought about your end users, even though there's a huge variety of them in terms of what they're trying to learn. I wanted to sort of look a little bit towards the future and kind of get your take on sort of the ed-tech landscape as it stands now. And so, I was kind of curious, looking beyond just the usual AI headlines, I think that's where we're still here. AI is the solution to the problem, but any emerging technologies that you think could revolutionize the serious learning that your users are typically going after in the next five years or so?

28:46.36

Andrew Cohen

I'm excited about what could be done with the voice. We have a lot of time in our lives where we aren't able to look at a screen, but we're listening to something that is adaptive, mostly audio, and perhaps with a little bit of voice control to do some feedback. 
It could be a really interesting study buddy in your pocket. It's a movie, Her, right? You guys, Scarlett Johansson in your ear, but she's quizzing you on your biology test or bargaining and stuff. You're walking, you're driving, you're working out, you're cleaning, all the time, where you're like, man, I should be studying. Well, you can be studying. If you're a high-stakes learner, a serious learner, you want to be using as much as possible time as you can, because life is busy. Maybe you have kids, maybe you have other responsibilities. So I'm bullish on you know what could be done, probably not just via ChatGPT, Cloud, or DeepSeek, any of the other LLMs. Yeah, they can quiz you. You could say, you know quiz me on some subject, but they don't have the sort of organized data structure that's in a UI like Brainscape, where, okay, here's the curriculum, like here's the actual content, here's you know broken down by every single subject, where they can quiz you on exactly what you need to know when. And so I think the right the right platform is going to use AI, probably, you know, be built on top of one of the LLMs' APIs, but to intelligently, you know, have that conversation with you. So, you know, really closely looking at that and looking at you know ways that we could better integrate with our but with somebody's overall curriculum, right? 

We've got the flashcard piece, they've got the readings and the videos, or maybe the practice test or something like that. So, is there a way you know through a Brainscape API to be a cleaner plug-in or even the inverse? Is there a way that Brainscape could have on our site and our app richer learning experiences, built around flashcards, where, having gotten our initial land grab, we as sort of the best flashcard tool, what would that afford us in building out the rest of the mode? 

Lots of really interesting things to think about, both related to AI, but also sort of the integration of tools where the tech exists, but it hasn't been as thoughtfully brought together yet.

31:22.26

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I'm hearing both the product mindset there, but also thinking about what the learners might want and just what could benefit. Everyone wants to customize their own platform or learning tool, but then they also want half of it built for them. So, just finding that kind of happy medium there. And I guess just kind of thinking about, you know, you as a founder and and some of the experiences you spoke about in the beginning, any top pieces of advice you'd give to a team that's trying to balance engagement with, you know, real rigorous academic instruction or learning that you would give to any founder or team out there?

31:58.83

Andrew Cohen

Know your customer, talk to as many users as you possibly can, as it's feasible, until you aren't learning anything more that's actionable in the short term. No founder has ever been known to fail, and when you ask, “Why did you fail?” They say, I talked to my users too much, I listened to many customers. So that's first and foremost. And then just understand what their motivation is. Is what they have to do an important certification where you know your life or career depends on this? Or is it more of a check-the-box, right? Like this is a company that needs to do some kind of compliance training, and oh man, the government's making us do it. You know that type of learning experience may not need to have as much rigor around memorization or self-assessment or seeing in such detailed ways, you know, how I'm performing and how much more I have to do. You want to just kind of go through it and understand their motivation, or their educators’ motivation, if you're sort of going through not the consumer path, but the institutional path, right? Understand, know what metrics they care about, what their company likes, what metrics the company cares about, but also what the person cares about for their job, but like, are they willing to take a chance and create a cool learning experience? Or are they very risk-averse, right? Nobody ever got fired for hiring IBM, so let's just build the traditional page-turner learning that's off the shelf and standard and sort of what's expected. So, you know, sometimes what your customer wants and what would be best for business isn't going to be amazing from a learning perspective, but it's going to pay the bills and introduce a good ROI, and be good enough. I hate to say that as a learning sciences degree, but you know, understanding the balance of that is business.

34:07.46

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I mean, and I love what you said about no one ever failed because they knew their customer too well. So, just really thinking about keeping that top of mind is really helpful.

34:16.68

Andrew Cohen

You don't even need an app. Like so many people are like, oh my gosh, we need to build a mobile app, a mobile platform. Is it something that somebody is going to need to log into all the time, and like reference for weeks to months, like it's just something they need to like use for short period of time or kind of reference, whatever, looking at mobile website would be fine.

34:41.67

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, well, I appreciate you so sharing some of those words of wisdom to those of us who are trying to study out there or anyone out there who's kind of working on building out ed tech products for other learners out there who are trying to, you know, just get the most out of their learning experiences.

Well, I guess, thank you for so much for just teaching us a lot about Brainscape. Your passion is clearly evident. And I think it's really cool to just think about a product that you actually designed for yourself coming to life and how it's helped it help learners out there.

Any parting words or closing thoughts that you wanted to share that we didn't get to share? And if anything else, how can our learners contact you or get to know more about Brainscape?

35:20.67

Andrew Cohen

Definitely check out our website or our mobile app, Brainscape. It could be easy to find, social media, everywhere else. If you're looking to pair your great platform that perhaps you're building with Magic EdTech for a whole curriculum and all the infrastructure around, a really good course or anything else, and you feel like a great mobile flashcard app compliment would pair well with it and you know that your content is very knowledge defensive, please don't hesitate to reach out and in general make sure that wherever you're learning it if your life is dependent on it, if your career is dependent on it, make sure that you're using the best learning principles out there and maybe I'm biased but active recall, metacognition, and spaced repetition. It seems so critical, so underrated, and so underutilized that I encourage everyone to learn more about this.

36:31.64

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, I appreciate that. And I think you didn't mention your YouTube channel, but I know there's a lot of great content on there. So I definitely suggest anyone who's trying to learn more, there's more out there as well.

36:41.67

Andrew Cohen

Perfect, yes, check us out on YouTube as well. You might see a lot of my love there. And lots of good advice not just on studying, but lots of other ways that you can improve your own productivity and mental health, and things that surround the learning experience.

36:58.76

Olivia Lara-Gresty

Yeah, it's all connected. So I appreciate your team for looking well-rounded in that way. Well, thanks again, Andrew, for joining us. I appreciate the conversation.